tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post6447459374405657567..comments2012-07-01T15:50:18.212-04:00Comments on Wesleyan Matters: More encouraged than ever…???Keith Druryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-56961995674600725092008-10-20T17:26:00.000-04:002008-10-20T17:26:00.000-04:00Thanks Keith for the insights. It sounds like Gen...Thanks Keith for the insights. It sounds like General conference dealt with a lot of things and stood firm on several issues. <BR/><BR/>I'm a bit troubled by people being so upset about the concern for environment or "Creation Care." If we say we value human life then we should want to be wise stewards of what God has entrusted to us. It doesn't mean that we worship the earth, it means we take care of it. <BR/><BR/>Hajduk said... "So we now support drinking, watching porno at theaters on Sunday." I didn't read anywhere that we as a denomination supported drinking. I also didn’t read anywhere that our denomination could watch porno at theaters on Sunday. Personally I don't think a person should watch porno anywhere... not at the theaters, not on the computer, not at the adult stores nor at home. We are a holiness denomination, which means that we peruse living a holy life no matter we are. <BR/><BR/>I’ve been a Wesleyan for 43 years and with whatever faults we have I’m still proud to be a Wesleyan. May we continue to strive as a denomination and as individuals to live holy lives dedicated to Jesus Christ!Myron D. Atkinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11477778495307398020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-82215779712392576472008-07-02T07:54:00.000-04:002008-07-02T07:54:00.000-04:00Olivia, the remark ""Could we “tax and spend” ours...Olivia, the remark ""Could we “tax and spend” ourselves into sending better missionaries to do better missionary work..." reflects the current debate in [traditional] missions... with the system of raising one's own support missionary work has increasingly become fund-raising work... there are missionaries ('called of the Holy Spirit' like you say) who are gifted and called but are terrible fund-raisers, while there are other wonderful speakers and fund raisers who can raise the half-million it take to send them out for four years... but they don't get much good missionary work done while they are there...they were better at raising money than doing missionary work.<BR/><BR/>Some wonder [especially some missionaries] if we should go to full denominational support for missionaries like we use to do... that is the denomination "taxes" local churches (rather than letting missions money be optional) and send the best missionaries...not the best fund raisers... like the Nazarenes have done so long in spite of the trends...<BR/><BR/>That's the only meaning of the statement… reflecting this current debate.<BR/><BR/>keithKeith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-29017371075861322042008-07-01T22:17:00.000-04:002008-07-01T22:17:00.000-04:00I am excited about some of the changes the church ...I am excited about some of the changes the church is making. However, I resonate with comments others have made. I sincerely hope we're making changes based on the leading of the Holy Spirit...and NOT on the ideals of the world around us. Keith, I appreciate your desire to placate, and your arguments are fair. Again, I hope this isn't a case of compromise for the sake of being inoffensive. I wasn't in attendance, and so I can't speak to the presence of the Spirit in the decisions made. Historically, however, downfall begins with compromise. <BR/><BR/>I do question your own comments...<BR/>"Could we “tax and spend” ourselves into sending better missionaries to do better missionary work..." I'm curious to know what you mean by this. I guess I fall into the camp that the Spirit of God chooses missionaries. That our human measure of good or bad, better or worse are irrelevant. I have been a missionary and have seen what I consider "bad" and "good" missionaries...yet, it seems God doesn't really care about my opinion. The Holy Spirit sets the course in the hearts of missionaries, and most hopefully in the heart of the church.OliviaSeatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12296325963794844707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-87262991361339302412008-06-27T21:06:00.000-04:002008-06-27T21:06:00.000-04:00Thanks for a balanced observation. I deeply apprec...Thanks for a balanced observation. I deeply appreciate Dr. Haines for speaking his heart at GC. However, I too observed several years ago a very progressive move to the left in his ideologies and views. At GC when he spoke I couldn't help but think of this.Two things concern me. 1. The diminishing number of delegates after the vote on the GS. By Wednesday morning many had already left. This is a shame after so much had been spent on the delgates expenses, etc. This needs to be addressed by the General Board. 2. Very little comments were made by the international delegates as to the "changing items." Yet, they possibly will be the most impacted due to cultural differences, etc. I personally do not feel enough thought was given to the "big picture" of the internaitonal church. Blessings!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12898997292258809707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-41402310956204083382008-06-19T09:14:00.000-04:002008-06-19T09:14:00.000-04:00An exceptionally insightful reflection on General ...An exceptionally insightful reflection on General Conference here by NC DS <BR/><A HREF="http://brampey.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/2008-general-conference-reflections/#comment-46" REL="nofollow">Buddy Rampey</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-75024971284498847802008-06-19T09:12:00.000-04:002008-06-19T09:12:00.000-04:00MYSTIFIED:Thanks for the thoughtful post. You are ...MYSTIFIED:<BR/>Thanks for the thoughtful post. You are probably right as a conservative to not be much "encouraged." This conference did open the door a bit on Sunday observance, it eliminated forbidding dancing, and extended voting rights to the already-established "Community members." (though not to Covenant members). (It also cracked down stronger on gambling and immigration and poverty). It did not, however pass the "Creation Care" memorial--it was never brought up even. But I generally agree with you that the conference continued (did not <I>begin</I> but continued) a loosening on many issues... though most of these "loosenings" reflect what I already see in the church--[most all the Wesleyan students I get attended their school's Prom for instance--IWU has forbidden dancing even though local churches and pastor's kids have danced until they arrived on campus ;-)<BR/><BR/>I've done a few columns on membership requirements (posted at the bottom of this collection) and history will show that for the last 50 years "membership rules" have constantly been in a state of flux... Long ago many Wesleyans started buying the Sunday paper, ate in restaurants on Sunday, and put on gold or silver pins or necklaces... these more recent changes in "rules" merely continue that shift (or "slide" as you might consider it). <BR/><BR/>I DO like "Old fashioned Holiness people" and think they are needed in the church... they stay grounded in past behaviors and "hold the kite string" for the denomination I think. My mother refused to cut her hair even when in the Nursing home--she did not insist that all her daughters-in-law have long hair, but she maintained her own conviction to the end of her life--that was good for us. Conservatives may not be able to enforce their convictions on the generations behind them, but I think they should hold to them personally and "be a witness" to coming generations. When they leave a denomination (as happened in the 1960's) all they do is allow 'the middle" to move over...<BR/><BR/>Some older delegates (e.g. Lee Haines and Marlin Mull) spoke strongly against some of these changes (though Lee Haines was the author of the biggest loosening ever--in 1980) the conservatives were well represented at general Conference. they were resoundingly outvoted, but they were heard and respected--just like the conservatives who opposed loosening our anti-TV stance were heard years ago and those who fought against wedding rings.<BR/><BR/>The denomination is navigating the waters of sorting between "Collective convictions' and "personal convictions" as it always has... making some mandatory (collective convictions) and others personal. Nobody can MAKE people with conservative convictions give them up--and people who hold to a stronger standard should be respected --even lauded... (my grandparents refused to even use electric lights on Sunday or even cook a hot meal) but as time passes some of these convictions become personal and not universal rules for all people. This general conference continued that 50 year practice of moving the rules-for-all over into the "personal convictions" category.<BR/><BR/>I honor you and other conservatives for maintaining your personal convictions. I also honor any local church who holds to "the old paths--even districts." I hope we do not banish or make fun of conservatives (as some do) but honor them and respect them and welcome them as kite-string-holders. But it is inevitable that some of these things will change over time I also accept.<BR/><BR/>however, as to the social issues--(like Immigration and poverty)those are right in the line of our conservative past--the Holiness movement and I welcome these new "collective convictions" even though they may step on a few toes of people who refuse to submit to them, but they are squarely in the line of the old holiness witness.Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-72808506494611589082008-06-18T19:28:00.000-04:002008-06-18T19:28:00.000-04:00How about more discouraged than ever? I can't rem...How about more discouraged than ever? I can't remember a time when I've been more ashamed to be a Wesleyan. My family has been a part of this Church (including predecessors) for at least 90 years and I'm sure that if my great grandma were alive today she would walk out of the church and never come back. <BR/><BR/>Keith, you said on your other blog that you like "old time" holiness people. Really? You've written books and articles on the subject which I have used and shared with others. I am thrown by your love of this years conference.<BR/><BR/>Since when did we become a denomination swayed by the public masses in the secular world? I am completely disheartened and I can't imagine what will come next.<BR/><BR/>I am proud of my Wesleyan heritage and I'm proud of the history of the Wesleyan Church. I can also say that I'm proud to be a part of a church that has elected a female GS. However, I fear that we didn't put Joann Lyon in her new position because she was the most qualified for the job. I have a feeling that she was placed in the position simply because the current cultural climate made it an emotionally appealing thing to do. I've known (and liked) Joann for many years and have known her family most of my life, but I don't think she is qualified to be GS. I have not heard (or read) anyone say how she plans to run World Hope and be a GS at the same time. Did anyone anywhere at anytime ask this? If you know the answer I'd love to know. I read somewhere that she was the "people's" person for the job. Really? I didn't even know she was an option and I don't recall getting a vote.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the "Global Warming" manifest that is cutely called "Creation Care" I have this to ask: Why don't we just call it "Earth Worship"? That's what it really is and the people behind the movement are pagan's who are forcing their views upon the rest of society. It sure does feel good though to know that we are a church that any social liberal can be proud of.<BR/><BR/>Illegal immigrants? We have a lot of new latino churches and we sure don't want to make anyone upset so let's use kinder term than "illegals" and call them "undocumented". Plleeeease... We can still love the people without accepting their ILLEGAL behavior. If we want to change the laws then let's do that, but until then they are still BREAKING THE LAW! Frankly, I somewhat agree with your idea of making them legal but with some caveats. However, until then they are still BREAKING THE LAW.<BR/><BR/>Dancing...no real problem here but I understand the issues involved. I watch these dance contestants on TV and wonder how they keep their minds pure.<BR/><BR/>Drinking...I think that maybe we reached a good compromise. Unfortunately history shows us that when you begin to compromise on small matters then it's not too long before you have completely lost your way.<BR/><BR/>I think we are headed in the wrong direction. How are we as a denomination any different than any other church on the block? We've completely lost our sense of uniqueness. The Wesleyan Church at one time had a distinguishing point. Today, even though it's technically still "on the books" it's rarely talked about certainly not practiced by the majority. I frankly am wondering why the Wesleyan Church doesn't just merge with some of the larger denominations. In fact, (dramatic pause) what's keeping the Wesleyan Church from joining certain Calvinist churches?<BR/><BR/>I know my opinion doesn't matter and you don't know me from any bum on the street, but these are my thoughts anyway.Colorado Fanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08290045060237079041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-1473903596970381222008-06-18T15:34:00.000-04:002008-06-18T15:34:00.000-04:00I am disgusted by the adoption of the Immigration ...I am disgusted by the adoption of the Immigration policy! I'm also disgusted by the "global warming' policy! I can't believe the Wesleyan Church has become what it has in such a short time--only 40 years to lose sight of personal holiness and integrity. We've now adopted the idea of a social gospel that totally is motivated by the "progressive" thought of the time. Where can I go to throw-up?! So we now support drinking, watching porno at theaters on Sunday and BREAKING THE LAW (illegal immigrants or as the new adopted statement says, "undocumented"--ugh!). Give me a break! Go join the United Methodist Church and leave the Wesleyan Church, please! If this is what we are to become then I want out! This is what we get from IWU, OWU, SWU, and Houghton trying to become all things to all people!<BR/><BR/>By the way, I NEVER listen to Sean Hannity or the other one you're probably thinking of.Insert name herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01692663468918634402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-78769740942649523232008-06-12T17:51:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:51:00.000-04:00Wisconsin's Mark Wilson<A HREF="http://revitalizeyourchurch.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow"> Wisconsin's Mark Wilson</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-28749614853814957042008-06-12T17:49:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:49:00.000-04:00Here is an especially THOUGHTFUL POSTHere is an <BR/><A HREF="http://olsuit.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/one-small-momentous-step/" REL="nofollow"> especially THOUGHTFUL POST</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-27919270474068677722008-06-12T17:46:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:46:00.000-04:00Report by W2WKBReport by <BR/><A HREF="http://w2wkb.blogspot.com/2008/06/wesleyan-church-elects-first-woman.html" REL="nofollow"> W2WKB</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-64774689407310640212008-06-12T17:45:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:45:00.000-04:00Gen Conf by Rick CarderGen Conf by <BR/><A HREF="http://rickcarder.blogspot.com/2008/06/jo-anne-lyons-on-purity-and-power.html" REL="nofollow"> Rick Carder</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-85460290631612202022008-06-12T17:43:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:43:00.000-04:00Gen Conf comments by Pastor RickGen Conf comments by <BR/><A HREF="http://phil310-11.blogspot.com/2008/06/general-conference-08-wesleyan-church.html" REL="nofollow">Pastor Rick </A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-92204279752631182008-06-12T17:42:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:42:00.000-04:00Gen Conf comments by Josh from PennsylvaniaGen Conf comments by <BR/><A HREF="http://theodysseyoffaith.blogspot.com/2008/06/female-general-superintendent.html" REL="nofollow">Josh from Pennsylvania</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-43442750660278152042008-06-12T17:40:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:40:00.000-04:00Gen Conf comments by Josh KeeslingGen Conf comments by <BR/><A HREF="http://www.johndhowell.com/?p=137" REL="nofollow">Josh Keesling</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-56547519387086304962008-06-12T17:38:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:38:00.000-04:00GenConf coments by john HowellGenConf coments by <BR/><A HREF="http://www.johndhowell.com/?p=137" REL="nofollow">john Howell</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-5976498871054011942008-06-12T17:35:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:35:00.000-04:00UNOFFICIAL Nazarene chat over the shoulder on the ...UNOFFICIAL Nazarene chat over the shoulder on the Wesleyan Gen conference (and their own) <BR/><A HREF="http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?t=20578" REL="nofollow">NazNet</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-15045182217744081542008-06-12T17:33:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:33:00.000-04:00Here;s is what Stevan Sheetssays...(who "attended"...Here;s is what <BR/><A HREF="http://daleargot.com/2008/06/09/general-conference-2008/" REL="nofollow">Stevan Sheets</A><BR/>says...(who "attended" the conference VIA live chatKeith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-75717991599210394172008-06-12T17:31:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:31:00.000-04:00Here is what -- Thad Springsays...Here is what -- <BR/><A HREF="http://daleargot.com/2008/06/09/general-conference-2008/" REL="nofollow">Thad Spring</A><BR/>says...Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-78129241721163179372008-06-12T17:27:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:27:00.000-04:00One by -- Dale ArgotOne by -- <BR/><A HREF="http://daleargot.com/2008/06/09/general-conference-2008/" REL="nofollow">Dale Argot</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-45623132296164546832008-06-12T17:26:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:26:00.000-04:00another blog on genconf by -- Elizabeth Glassanother blog on genconf by -- <BR/><A HREF="http://thebigredcouch-bitty.blogspot.com/2008/06/ewok-dance.html" REL="nofollow">Elizabeth Glass</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-56436065079279142362008-06-12T17:25:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:25:00.000-04:00Or this one by young -- pastor Matt TietjeOr this one by young -- <BR/><A HREF="http://doayp.com/blog/archives/201" REL="nofollow">pastor Matt Tietje</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-5024263570502028832008-06-12T17:23:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:23:00.000-04:00and this one: -- Shawna's takeand this one: -- <BR/><A HREF="http://shawna-rvwc.blogspot.com/2008/06/blogging-democracy.html" REL="nofollow">Shawna's take</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-67906499481616938142008-06-12T17:21:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:21:00.000-04:00Post by Jim watkinsPost by <BR/><A HREF="http://jameswatkins.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/joanne-lyon-offers-world-hope/" REL="nofollow">Jim watkins</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6943839128702927680.post-51537083208034626692008-06-12T17:19:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:19:00.000-04:00Yet another blog on general Conference at Sammattu...Yet another blog on general Conference at <BR/><A HREF="http://sammattus.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/the-wesleyan-church-general-superintendant-dr-joanne-lyon/" REL="nofollow">Sammattus</A>Keith Druryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058949281404407630noreply@blogger.com